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Scientist figures out why global warming is falling short of predictions Comments

Global warming is happening, or at least it should be. According to climate researchers, there are plenty of greenhouse gasses in the air, and the planet is warming. The problem is, the planet isn't keeping pace with previous, alarming predictions. Why not? One scientist now thinks he's found the answer. Continue Reading

1 - 10 of 16 Comments

  1. Steve Elfelt
    1 year ago

    Hopefully any other readers still paying attention will evaluate the various arguments that have been made according to some common sense criteria described here:

    http://www.skepticalscience.com/5-characteristics-of-scientific-denialism.html

  2. Jerry N
    1 year ago

    Steve: "If you reject global warming, how would you explains the story in today's news cycle? "

    I find no need to explain some gobbly-gook psuedo-scientific "findings" of UN global warming religion zealots who constantly publish lies in pursuit of a transparent political agenda.

    Your foolish article, which is not even close to anything resembling "news", claims the Arctic ocean is becoming more "acidic". But the oceans are known to have a pH somewhere around 8.1 or 8.2. A pH above 7 is basic, not acidic, so these fools don't even know enough to know that the direction they claim the oceans are headed is making them chemically more neutral, not more acidic. I guess they think that claiming the oceans are becoming more "acidic" sounds scarier than claiming that the oceans are becoming more like fresh water. Frankly, I like the taste of fresh water much better than salt water.

    I also note that you have not been able to refute a single one of my well-founded arguments about the main topic of the article, or your bogus theories that relate to it. As with most zealots, when you cannot argue your points directly, you resort to changing the subject or insulting those of us who can knowledgeably argue our case.

  3. Steve Elfelt
    1 year ago

    Of course, you mean EXCEPT for the peer reviewed documentation in various professional papers found in the science literature already referenced in my prior comments. See also.....

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120403153850.htm

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2013/apr/24/reuters-puzzled-global-warming-acceleration


    If you reject global warming, how would you explains the story in today's news cycle?
    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/06/scientists-climate-change-causing-arctic-ocean-to-acidify-at-alarming-rate/





  4. Jerry N
    1 year ago

    "...you offer up some undocumented speculation about increased geothermal heating of the ocean deep."

    What you call "undocumented speculation", I call irrefutable physical science supported by eight years of academic study, by decades of related practical working experience in the hard sciences, and by the fundamental principles of heat transfer. I never speculated that there is or ever was geothermal heating of the ocean deep. i just reasoned that if your undocumented speculation of temperature increases in the deep oceans were actually true, then this could not possibly be due to man-made causes.

    Obviously, you cannot find a single error in any of my rock solid, scientifically reasoned explanations, so you resort to casting insults and relying on politically-motivated, psuedo-scientific videos as your "documented evidence".

    All the "documentation" anyone needs can be found in "Heat Transfer", 3rd Edition by J.P. Holman, ME Prof at SMU. This is on Page1: "Most readers will be familiar with the terms used to denote the three modes of heat transfer: conduction, convection and radiation." The word "advection" is found nowhere in the entire textbook.

  5. Steve Elfelt
    1 year ago

    So instead of talking about the work of the many scientists in the videos I posted you offer up some undocumented speculation about increased geothermal heating of the ocean deep

    That's great! Reminds me of the guy on the right....

    http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/sciencetoolkit_04

  6. Jerry N
    1 year ago

    Steve Elfelt: "Jerry, your basic science is lacking in two ways."

    Steve - Your criticism is pure horse hockey and reveals that my basic science and knowledge of heat transfer is not lacking, and far exceeds yours.

    Firstly, there are three types of heat transfer, not four. "Advection" is not one of them and is usually used to refer to transfer of fluid, not heat. Pick up any heat transfer textbook and you will read this in Chapter 1.

    Secondly, radiation or convection have nothing to do with the heat transfer that keeps an ice chest cold or causes it to heat up when the lid is opened in a hot room. The ice chest analogy was yours, not mine, and if it is a valid analogy, it completely disproves your bogus theory of heat transferring into the oceans from the atmosphere. The basic formula for conduction heat transfer involves multiplying by temperature difference. Your theory claimed there is heat conduction with no change in atmospheric temperature, thus no change in temperature difference between ocean and air, which means no change in heat conduction to the ocean.

    Thirdly, there is also no way that convection or radiation can affect any kind of heat transfer between v-e-r-y cold deep ocean water and air surface temperatures. Convection heat transfer requires close physical proximity of the two volumes that are transferring heat. The deep ocean is not in close physical proximity to surface air by any stretch of anyone's imagination. Radiation requires a radiation source, like the sun. Neither the deep ocean or the earth's atmosphere is a radiation source.

    Steve: "...the v-e-r-y cold deep ocean can easily warm without the much warmer surface air temps going up."

    If the v-e-r-y cold deep oceans are warming without the surface air temps going up, then it has nothing to do with minor, almost negligible man-made greenhouse gas increases, as I already explained. The temperatures in the v-e-r-y cold deep oceans are much more likely to affected by conduction from the heat of the magma below them, not what is happening above them through a 5 mile thick water insulation blanket.


  7. Steve Elfelt
    1 year ago

    Jerry, your basic science is lacking in two ways.

    First in addition to conduction (which you mentioned) there are also other ways that heat moves around including advection, radiation, and convection.

    Second, the v-e-r-y cold deep ocean can easily warm without the much warmer surface air temps going up. This very point was thoroughly hashed out in the replies to comment #6 in this thread at RealClimate (a site run by actual scientists).
    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2013/04/the-answer-is-blowing-in-the-wind-the-warming-went-into-the-deep-end/

    If we were NOT warming the deep ocean, how do explain the findings reported in "Amount of Coldest Antarctic Water Near Ocean Floor Decreasing for Decades" at http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120403153850.htm ?

    ================
    VIDEOS

    Is the thermohaline circulation really at risk?
    http://youtu.be/ovIvtKSQy9Y

    Secrets Beneath the Ice
    http://video.pbs.org/video/1700738538/

    Temperatire/Salinity readings with 1000s of Argo Floats - ocean research
    http://vimeo.com/44793734

  8. J. Bob
    1 year ago

    6" snow this AM.

    Still waiting for "man made global warming", where is Al gore when you need him.

    On another note, the seas have been absorbing, & giving up heat for 100's of millions of years, so what's new?

  9. Steve Elfelt
    1 year ago

    Anyone who has shoveled a snowy sidewalk knows there is a big difference between a dusting of powder and foot of slop. So let's forget about how far the sea ice extends over the arctic and look at what matters: the total volume of that ice. There's a great animation that shows the data since the late 70s up on youtube.

    Marshall, this would be a good video to feature in your lead in to these stories

    http://youtu.be/YgiMBxaL19M

  10. Jerry N
    1 year ago

    Steve Elfelt: "...the place IS warming..... the heat is just going into the deep ocean, as though somehow the lid to the ice chest has been opened up."

    Huh? When one opens the lid to the ice chest, heat transfers to the ice and starts to melt it because a thermal barrier to heat conduction has been removed. What thermal barrier is removed between the oceans and the atmosphere by the burning of fossil fuels? Your statement and theory that heat is somehow being removed from the atmosphere and conducted into the ocean is utter nonsense. If you add some heat to a room that an open ice chest is in, the ice chest does not suck up all the added heat preventing the room from heating up. The temperature of the room must increase before the heat conduction to the ice chest will change.

    The entire premise of man-made global warming hinges on increased concentrations of CO2 creating a stronger thermal barrier between atmosphere and space, thus heating the atmosphere. So-called greenhouse gases cannot "push" additional heat downward into the oceans.unless the air temperature increases first. The premise of oceans heating, but not the atmosphere due to increased greenhouse gases in the atmosphere defies all the laws of heat transfer. Heat rises, heat conduction is driven by temperature difference, and water still flows downhill.


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