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Atheists provide answer to big Obama election mystery Comments

A baffling mystery that has troubled Americans since early November may finally have an answer; how did Obama, with so much opposition arrayed against him, manage to eke out the votes to win the election? Demographic data suggests Obama had the support of a previously ignored coalition. Continue Reading

11 - 20 of 43 Comments

  1. judy claar
    1 year ago

    Susan, You have said nothing thus far to violate the regulations of commenting on this board, so naturally, your voice is welcome. I will say, that under the Leave a Comment, it states that they reserve the right not to publish for any number of reasons stated. One, is openly opposing the teaching of the Catholic Church. I would say, in my mere opinion, that you come rather close to that, insinuating? that Christianity is "a mythological tradition". Please correct me if I misunderstand you. I know that you accept the historical Jesus. Let me add here, that Mythology was a minor, while Psychology a major. I do not boast here. I merely want you to know that to me, I know the difference between Mythology and Jesus. It is hard for some to get past the barrier of delusion. But then, that is My Truth.

    The Strawman. I will agree and acknowledge your opinion here. But only to a point. It really annoys me when the guest will not come up with an easy yes or no answer, when they are asked a simple yes or no question. I don't want a long explanation from the guest. A nice yes or no to get the ball rolling will do quite well. It will let me know where he stands right from the get go. Honesty. No political flim flam. I've had enough of that!

    Respectfully, I address this question to you and David Silverman: How is the government taking sides?

    By Removing Christian and Jewish History and Culture?

    I suspect that will cause only dis-ease among both parties.

    Susan, I knew after I posted that last post to you, that I should have said, as I do now, that I was not implying that you were angry, had a chip on your shoulder, or an over indulged Ego.

    Thank you for mentioning the other boards to google. I have probably googled > more than you know. I am very much at peace with myself, and learning always. Blessings...

  2. DLL
    1 year ago

    Susan from your posts it is evident that you read the first line only and fail to see it as it relates to the rest of what someone may post in their comment. See all that is written in proper context. This is the way Athiests try to tear apart a Christian commenter specifically. I believe it is a deliberate technique. Also read what this Pope and the last one has written on matters of faith. Do not just assume they are against all non Catholics or Ex ones for that matter. That is mean spirited as well as inaccurate. You are judging them,they are not judging you,nor am I for that matter. Don't be so bitter. God made you to be a unique and special human being. Love is the driving center point for each and every human soul. God made us this way. Peace! In Christ I know that this is true. Merry Christmas! May God Bless you!

  3. Gerald
    1 year ago

    Maybe we could write words on a piece of paper making it law all athiests are to be followers of Christ. Or we can change the world by loving our neighbors and forgiving our enemies and spreading the Good News of God's Kingdom.

  4. Susan
    1 year ago

    Judy:

    Respectfully, I was trying to point out that David Silverman does not represent all atheists. They are not a hive.

    David Silverman represents the American Atheists, a specific organization that describes itself as "a non-profit organization that supports the rights of atheists and the removal of expressions of religion in public when possibly interpretable as governmental endorsement".

    >When it comes to removal of things that are religious, I say, "What are you afraid of?'

    It's not about fear. It's about the government endorsing a particular religion.

    >I am Catholic. Therefore, if I had an atheists mind set, it should offend me to see Historical Mormon Trail signs. I should not listen to the beautiful Morman Tabernacle Choir...they should be banned from TV...after all, That religion, is in NO WAY like mine, or Like my thought/s and belief system.

    It's not about offense. None of us have the right not to be offended. It's about the government endorsing a particular religion.

    >I say this Susan, because that is how silly removing Judao-Christian beliefs are. Not only that, but American Native Religions who were in this country first! These three Cultures are the CRUX of AMERICA. They are America's Past. America's Culture. Who are atheists to take History, Literature, Song and Music, etc. the Culture of America's Yesterday's Memories away?

    I don't know any atheists who are trying to take any of that away. There is no reason to assume that we will lose history, literature, song, music, or any mythological tradition by defending the constitutional principle that the government can't take sides.

    Show me one atheist in the United States of America who advocates burning books or destroying music because they were written by a christian or a muslim. I've never heard of one. If you can find one, you'll also find millions of atheists who would stand against them.

    It's very simple. The government can't take sides.

    You're addressing a strawman. Bill O'Reilly isn't helping. His method is to ask misleading questions and when the person on the other side of the table attempts to answer them, he interrupts and asks another misleading question or makes misleading statements.

    If you'd like to know what various atheists think about things, and also many theists who believe that secular principles protect everyone, it would be a good idea to go to their sources. I would provide links, but I'm not clear on the rules of this site and as a visitor, I prefer to err on the side of caution out of respect. The moderators have been very gracious to me so far and I am trying to do the same.

    There are secular and atheist organizations within the United States who can probably be found with a google search. If you take issue with the arguments, take issue with the real arguments, not the strawmen that Bill O'Reilly likes to erect in order to set them ablaze for public spectacle.

    For the record, I am never offended by my theist friends wishing me a Merry Christmas or a Happy Hannukah or any number of things when it's done (as it usually is), in genuine friendship. Even if I was, I would certainly never take it to court. THAT is apples and oranges.

    >This was out of the mouth of an atheist who is not angry, or have a chip on her shoulder, or an over indulged Ego.

    There is nothing wrong with legitimate anger. How we respond to that anger is how we should be judged. What do you mean by an over indulged Ego? How would we diagnose that?






  5. Susan
    1 year ago

    >Communism and Fascist regimes begin with a charismatic leader who is full of hot air and lies that the governed are gullible enough to believe.

    This is exactly how the popes look to non-catholics (and ex-catholics).

    When pressed for evidence, the "faith" card is produced.

    I am deeply concerned about our tendency as humans to believe what charismatic leaders assert.

  6. judy claar
    1 year ago

    Susan, First I will say, comparing apples to oranges you are correct: President of Atheists vs. President of American Atheists. I am sorry. I thought that I had it correctly. I was pretty darn close you will have to admit. I did not think I was back in college. However, precisely correct is precisely correct.

    When it comes to the rights of atheists, absolutely no one is objecting. When it comes to removal of things that are religious, I say, "What are you afraid of?'

    I am Catholic. Therefore, if I had an atheists mind set, it should offend me to see Historical Mormon Trail signs. I should not listen to the beautiful Morman Tabernacle Choir...they should be banned from TV...after all, That religion, is in NO WAY like mine, or Like my thought/s and belief system.
    What about Any History by a religious person/s...ban it from the history books...it dealt in religion. (Columbus, Spain, Queen Isabella Catholicism. How about Literature? Whoever was religious and wrote religious thoughts, poems, novels,those books are banned...their goes Lit. I say this Susan, because that is how silly removing Judao-Christian beliefs are. Not only that, but American Native Religions who were in this country first! These three Cultures are the CRUX of AMERICA. They are America's Past. America's Culture. Who are atheists to take History, Literature, Song and Music, etc. the Culture of America's Yesterday's Memories away?

    Government Endorsement? We have too much of it! Of Religion? America does no such thing. However, you might get your Holiday, and that would be fine with me, IF atheism were indeed a religion, and the following was as large as the Philosophy of Christianity or Judaism.
    Then I would think it Rational.

    I know atheists. Some are even great friends! You know why? Because they don't care if someone say's: "Merry Christmas", "Happy Hanukkah", "Happy Holidays", or whatever, and they are happy and of good spirit because they are acknowledged for being a person of goodwill, joy and peace. All the more reason, so that they too, can celebrate this Love. This was out of the mouth of an atheist who is not angry, or have a chip on her shoulder, or an over indulged Ego. And yes, they celebrate Christmas w/a Christmas Tree, Share Love and Peace and Giving. I guess the Best Lit Novel for them is by Dickens. Can you guess it?

    Susan, the government does not endorse any religion. I am with O'rielly on this one.

    Religion on government land? That's a new one to me. Nice Chatting. Prayerful Blessings...



  7. DLL
    1 year ago

    Communism and Fascist regimes begin with a charismatic leader who is full of hot air and lies that the governed are gullible enough to believe. They talk about making everything equal for everyone,so there are no rich or poor. They encourage a to quote Bill O'Rielly,a "Nanny State" so government is going to see that all is equal. Personal wealth is dissolved and becomes government owned and operated. Accountability is for the governed but not applicable to the governing "Political elite". Religious institutions are ridiculed,mocked and called the opium of the masses. Morality dies,sex becomes sport,women are sex objects,men are slaves of the state. Today that would include all working women as well. Taxes become unreasonable,investment impossible.The state becomes the religion of the masses. Marx,Stalin,Castro,Hitler,Hussain are the Messiahs of the regimes,superior to God. President Obama is similar to these gentlemen. He is about the politic of power and about manipulation. He was the biggest liar of the past political campaign. He knows that if one says the same lie over and over again and campaigns hard promoting the lie,people will believe the lie as absolute truth. Athiests also know this when they try to destroy religious principals. These are examples. Under the circumstances of our times we are vulnerable to the gullibility that Communists who want to promote "change" depend on. One day the nation is communistic or fascist,not free,terrorism and mass poverty for the proletariat is the order of these regimes. The people let their guard down and simply became politically manipulated. Life becomes a living hell. The economy falls apart. Morals are non existent. The rules of law are not applicable for all just some folks. Concentration camps exterminate the governmentally sanctioned as undesirables. Abortion and euthanasia are sanctioned as okay. Genocide is acceptable as it was in nazi Germany. Most of all religion and wealth are the evils of society,evil even becomes socially permissible. On and on it goes. In practice there is no such thing as socialism. One day communism or fascist dictators are in control,it happens when people do not know what they stand for or believe in anymore. Sorry Susan but that is the way it happens.

  8. Susan
    1 year ago

    Judy:

    >I refer you to a few nights ago, when the President of Atheists was on Bill O'riely

    First of all, his name (I checked your link) is David Silverman. And he is not "the President of Atheists". He is "the current president of the American Atheists, a non-profit organization that supports the rights of atheists and the removal of expressions of religion in public when possibly interpretable as governmental endorsement". Huge distinction.

    When Bill O'Reilly asked why Silverman was "messing around with his church", Silverman replied that "We are not messing around with anything. We are stopping the government from preferring one religion over another." at which point Bill interrupted in order to evade Silverman's key point of discussion.

    He did this by asking, "What religion is involved with christmas? WHAT religion?"

    Silverman replied, "Christianity." And Bill O'Reilly emphatically stated that christianity is not a religion. It is a philosophy. Do you agree with this?

    When Bill O'Reilly mentions that people can celebrate winter solstice anyway they want, Silverman's answer is simple. The government can't take sides.

    Why is something so fundamentally established in the U.S. constitution, the very thing that allowed all religions to thrive and not destroy each other, the thing that gave catholics the freedom to believe whatever they wanted and non-catholics to do the same, so offensive?

    Silverman stands up for every private citizen's right to believe what they want outside of government endorsement, but draws a line at official endorsement of any religious belief.

    It's about special privilege on public land.

    Everyone has a voice on private land. This is good for every American and always has been. Thank goodness for those American citizens who recognize and defend that idea. There are many christians, many of whom are catholic who recognize the value of those principles.

    And most atheists/agnostics/ non-catholics do not wish they could be christians and/or catholics. Most of the ones I know are ex-christians/catholics who care deeply about what's true and find themselves completely unpersuaded by the claims they were raised with and they have had to burrow out of the mind control that was inflicted on them as children. Others were never indoctrinated and don't see what all the fuss is about.

    >How much it deals in real Reality? To conclude, I understand that some of you are searching... start on a trek to prove the Bible wrong.

    Do you know who wrote the bible? Have you read it through from beginning to end? This is very important.

    Grey Piper:

    >No kidding, the Kos must be shuffling all their trolls this way. There's just too much rubbish to respond to, but then, that's what trolls do.

    Polite, reasoned responses can be called trolls all day, but that doesn't make them trolls. I've also seen them called haters (in this very thread) but have seen no evidence of hatred. Please explain why people who disagree with you respectfully and who are trying to articulate WHY they disagree are "trolls". No one's causing trouble for the sake of it. They are trying to have a reasoned discussion. They're challenging assumptions. This is healthy and respectful.

    DLL:

    >Our country never lived under a communist regime before. It is going to soon. Just wait as we all get the government we deserve.

    Please define what you mean by communism. And show me how the U.S. will ever become communist. The fact that people aren't voting for things that you think are true does not mean the U.S. will ever become big, scary communists. Whatever you mean by that.





  9. Anthula
    1 year ago

    The stance of Catholic.org is even more troubling than the U.S. citizens who claim to be patriotic Americans. Now that we have a President (not given the basic respect of having his title before his name here) who does not hipocritically push a religious agenda on Americans, he is supposedly anti-religion, and this organizations stance has supported the delusion of others, fanning the flames for people to accuse him of being "Communist," Socialist," and an "Islamic Fundamentalist," NONE of which our President is.

    The President's mother and grandparents raised him to be Christian and he became a Baptist before marrying the First Lady. And some people complain about that, as well. The crossing over of religion onto politics and politics onto religion is a toxic mix. Instead of lending faith, understanding and fidelity, it is used as a weapon when people disagree, most often by political neoconservatives. Whether you voted for him or not, there is NO evidence to support that there was a special interest group that helped him "eek by with votes".

    President Obama was voted in fairly and squarely, despite the efforts of others to redistrict voting areas so they would carry extra weight. It is sad and depressing when a religion that used to herald the underclass, now abett scapegoating and shaming of the most vulnerable citizens. The Catholic Church needs to clean up its own back yard before delving into politics and exhibiting their prejudice against a sitting President. To do so is not only disrespectful, but condoning potential harm on him, wrongfully rationalizing that he is not a believer.

  10. Ben Scritto
    1 year ago

    I find it hard to believe that 12% of voters single-handedly voted a president into office. Even if 100% of atheists voted for Obama (which is highly unlikely given the Libertarian views many of them hold), they would need another 39% of all of the American voters - better than a third of them - to get the job done.

    Nevertheless, the the non-theists, joined by all other non-Christians, probably helped elect him simply because of the hyper-religiosity of the Republican party as a whole. Separation of church and state is an important constitutional safeguard against one group dominating another for spurious reasons. The determination of many Christian conservatives to impose their brand of morality - not to mention their brands of biology, physics, and cosmology - on those who do not share their religious beliefs is a huge problem for them.

    Unless conservative Christians want another religion to impose its tenets and behavioral requirements on them, they would be wise not to impose conservative Christian values on the public as a whole. Striking a neutral balance such that people may choose their own moral pathways is a much more palatable option, both now and in the future.


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